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why does something have to dark in order to be earnest? Batman Begins and TDK were dark because the Batman character is dark. a dark Superman would not work, Superman is not dark, making him dark would in fact be very inauthentic
to repeat the success of The Dark Knight in box office sales
with their other comic book characters?
maybe they mean the story will have a darker tone, and not
the character. Perhaps Superman will bring hope during a
dark turbulent time on Earth.
Hold on a minute guys...why is a dark Superman impossible? Certainly a "dark" Superman like TDK CAN work. Remember TDK is a PG-13 movie..sure it pushed that to the limit but the darkness of TDK sources from
a) A play on our psychology. We never actually see any blood or indeed much of a dead body but the movie constantly makes us think that such a thing happens. Why can this not be utilised in a superman movie?
b) the joker was an awesome villian. Sure superman does have a villian like the joker. as far as i know anyway (im more of a marvel afficiando) however, how about creating a villian? im sure the fanboys will cry foul but as far as the villian is as awesome as the joker. (and by awesome i mean, plays on our fear and introduces a whole load of chaos and confusion)
c) the look and feel of the movie. chicago makes a great setting but also the darkness is very much a part of the batman's mythos and nolan used that very well. However, i see no reason why superman cannot be placed in this void and darkness. Yes yes superman is more of a "day" guy but i'd be the 1st to see superman kicking all sorts of ass using darkness as an ally....
also, maybe its time to change superman's suit....hmmmm
so...create a dark world for superman. give him a brand new villian. i DEMAND a series of scenes where he perfects his suit and during that time, maybe we can explore Clark Kent being tempted to go nuts on the bad guys. Lets have him go through a period where all around him leave him, betray him etc..and the temptation to sway to the dark side is very strong.
I definitely think a Superman film that is dark in nature could work. It doesn't mean you have to make the character of Superman dark himself. But the reason The Dark Knight succeeded is because it had a main character who lost at times. Do that with Superman, make bold choices that will shake up the Man of Steel's seemingly invulnerable foundation, and I guarantee you that fans will come running.
Great job, Neil.
For years, Superman and Batman have been different, but successful. Singer's movie was a mess, inconsistently consistent with Donner's film but with too many weird elements like Superstalker voyeuristically spying on Lois at home, a child that made no sense, Kevin Spacey's awful performance (and rehashed real estate schemer) as Lex Luthor and the rediculous event of Superman lifting a mountain of kryptonite into the sky without losing his powers.
Adam [Sweeney] is right, Superman's problem is in the very nature of the character.
He, and the boys that like him, think it's all about power. The guy is unmatched and
unrelatable. That's why he's failed in the comics and that's why he'll always fail in
film. But there may be hope...
If the studio tells the story that is most compelling, then he's got a chance but still
only one movie (maybe two). A Superman story is only good when his little perfect
world is destroyed.
Here's two ways to achieve this (and entirely what Smallville is about) and you'll get a
character everyone can relate to.
1. Someone figures out who he is and threatens to call the curtain. (Remove the
possibility of a normal, unsuccessful career)
2. Tell him, everyone he knows will die before he does. (Remove the possibility of a
normal, unhappily married life)
Anything else and it's superfluous.
Since when has Superman been a failure in the comics?
Actually, John Byrne revamped Superman to make him a little more vulnerable in 1986. Again... the comics have it covered. Hollywood (or rather Warner Bros.) needs to follow the lead.
film."
I wouldn't call being published for close to 70 years and becoming one of the worlds most recognizable icons failing. Like him or not, he's conquered comics and done exactly what Warners wanted him to do with film; made them a ton of money.
Superman. If they took time to make Clark Kent as interesting as Superman, but both
alienated from people in different ways... then Clark/Superman wouldn't have any place
where he truly fits in... except maybe at the kent Farm with his Mom and Dad.
it'd also be great to have some realism in the physics of superman. I mentioned this in
another thread, but I think it's really dumb that Superman flies at a 100+ mph and still
manages to have neatly combed hair when he comes in for the landing.
@Johnny Boy: agreed, for the origin story yea Clark was clumsy and so on, but even in the comics he's moved on from that, the movies have been around for over 20 years, I think its time Clark eased up on the bumbling baffon act, yea slip it in there once in awhile but not 24/7, in the comics he's still "Clark" but he has more confidence while not giving away that he's Superman, he acts more human then just that guy blending into the background
@Kevin Carr: everything you said.....I couldn't have said it better lol
Frankly, I just don't think Superman really works as a character in the post-Watergate world. I believe pre-70's, most Americans were confident that the USA WAS a sort of world Superman, with the ability to solve any problem, to overcome any foe. That confidence has sort of wavered back and forth over the past three decades, and most of us have come to regard our place in the world with a little more healthy skepticism.
Ironically, I believe Donner's SUPERMAN movie worked so well for it's time precisely because his Superman was a vision of that sort of wide-eyed naivete that people were longing for in the mid-seventies. In the middle of one of the worst recessions in history, with the Cold War still ongoing, Donner's film was the perfect escapist entertainment.
So if it were me, I would make it a fish out of water story. But it's NOT the story of an alien who can't fit in on Earth and blah-blah-blah. It's the story of a Kansas farm boy who goes to the big city. The wide eyed, farm-fed, red-blooded, gung-ho kid comes to save the world and finds a cynical, sort of depressed, and at times very angry populace. But instead of being changed, through his actions, he changes THEM.
Anyway. There's my two bits.
- Then Batman Begins I understand he didn't want to rush it & that makes since, but I still hate the fact that there was no real bad guy. I like that he did an actual "original story" that had not been done in this sea of garbage remakes, but I just would have enjoyed it so much more if they made Scarecrow a bigger role player or someother guy more in the storyline. TDK I enjoyed very much, but Ledger messed it up god rest his soul. No sequel without him is setting them up to fall including without Aaron (which I thought his performace was excellent as well) if he doesn't return. I just ask no Harley Quinn I think that would be wack personally. Then again it would be tight to have her, Joker, & Two-Face, but scratch that. I guess her, Two-Face or The Riddler, & Scarecrow all team up. The title "Dark Justice"..sorry best I got currently.
- Green Lantern I can't belive that no one else is stoked for that, wtf?
So keep him as the constant presence in story. An unchanged character. Let the characters around him go through a transformation because of him.
Oh, and you know, don't make it a love story. Seriously. WTF.
Superman and the rest... Batman is a human after all , that makes him more interesting.
And Superman's comic book sales have not always been stellar. "The Death of Superman," one of the most popular comics of all-time, was specifically created to generate comic book sales. After that they gave Superman a new costume for a while, another attempt to make money. So while the Man of Steel himself may be, the Superman story is not bulletproof
thus will fail at saving people sometime. This is a great way to explore his psychology
instead of just a character that does incredible feats of strength.
"Anti-hero" type. There are still Boy Scouts out there. Which is what Batman/Bruce Wayne often called Clark/Superman. A Boy Scout.
Change the costume!?-Fine Change the director?!-Fine Don't change what has stood the test of time for 70+yrs. When you peel away all the layers the core should always be intact.
@KevinCarr/@Joe: By no means is money a judge of success, you should know better than that... to reiterate, Superman's flaw is that no one relates to him. Smallville doesn't even have him at full power, which is probably the reason why the show is still on the air. He hasn't even flown yet but all the socially inept fans flock to him, because they see his flaws, in themselves.
Bryan Singer's film is probably the truest adaption of the character himself; ie. the ability to lift planes without a grimace, or nonchalantly looking over his shoulder to vaporize falling glass. Yeah, the kid comes out of nowhere and a rock of krypton should probably crush him... but at the end of it all, he's forced to give it all up so that Lois can live a "normal" life. Even with all his power, he still can't be with his one true love... and that's kind of romantic, but also very lame--especially when he can crush "Cyclops".
To Superman, villains mean nothing, he's his own obstacle... so the comics resort to him dying, getting a new costume, updating his powers, attack is alter ego, or letting him tailspin out of control to keep him relevant. And his "self-sacrifice" well, they fix that too... have him fall in love with Wonder Woman--I mean he's got to get laid, right?
But what he did was a Fanboy approch of Donner's Superman, even his Superman hair combing STYLE is completly opposite of COMICBOOK VERSION. And adding his offspring element was another kick to Superman franchise.
All in all throw Briyan out of WB, reboot the franchise may be give us Tom Willing as the new Superman.