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Also, you nitpick too much. Everyone does.
Lots of needless explosions too. The HK flies by Kyle and Marcus and causes a building to crumble. Really? What the hell is the point?
Where was the T-1000 cameo? I missed it
Anyone have a problem with how Connor reacted when he first saw the Arnold model.
I'm hoping the dvd will have some worthwhile bonus features. Maybe a cool tribute to Stan Winston!
My guess is we'll here rumblings about a straight up remake of the original - as awful an idea as that would be - before we hear about a 5th movie.
In fairness it is fairly common knowledge that Kyle came from the future as Sarah never hid it from John so his youngness wouldn't be the shocker to end all shocks.
Also it is pointless saying why didn't they just kill Conner or Reese because that would mean they win. Even the first films would unravel under such scrutiny, like why didn't they just send the T-800 to find Connors great great great great great grandfather as a baby and smoosh his baby face? Because it means no film.
That's a cop-out. The answer is that the screenplay never should have allowed Skynet to capture Reese in the first place. The problem isn't that Skynet didn't kill Reese, it's that in the situation presented there's absolutely no reason why it wouldn't.
And as for the dazzling effects in this film, I'll tell you what... rent the film Knowing with Nicholas Cage and tell me if the two main disaster effects don't totally trump EVERYTHING in this film.
Most "anonymous" commentators are just upset that we didn't like the same movies as they did. Tough nuts.
Did they ever even explain how Skynet knows Reese is John Connor's father?
T2 > T1 > T4 > T3
Also, someone, please explain to me why Cyberdyne is still a huge factor the creation of the terminators. Wasn't Judgement Day postponed because Cyberdyne's information on the terminator was destroyed, therefore leading the Air Force to create it. I guess we're supposed to assume that Cyberdyne had more facilities with the secret information, but it's never brought up at all. Why leave us in the dark when they could of covered that with a single line of dialogue.
But anyway, on point. Whats with the complaint about the indestructible terminator? Isn't that what these things are supposed to be? Do you guys remember the first movie, how impossible it was to kill it? The whole point of a terminator is that is unstoppable. I just don't see how you can complain about that
I'm the type of person who doesn't put much money on sequels being any good, so when I heard that they were making ANOTHER Terminator movie (even after the horror that was T3), I groaned. I went in expecting a bad movie but I was proven wrong. Sure, there were plot holes, the dialogue inconsistently went from touching to cliche, and some characters were as dimensional as an index card (who else didn't buy the Kate/John romance?). But the bits that I liked allowed me to overlook the nonsensical so much so that I went to see it a second time!
Eagerly awaiting the DVD...or, sh*t, maybe I'll go see it yet again. =P
There was no (0) timetravel in this film.
Just fyi,,,,,
skynet didn't exist in 1984
and even if they did, the only reason Reese is sent back is to stop the terminator. so if skynet knows in 2018 that kyle reese fathers john connor in the past then all they need to do to stop that from happening would be to not send a terminator back, bingo bango John Connor doesn't exist.
I'm not saying this all makes sense just that it's probable enough. And yes skynet should have, could have and otherwise would have done about 3000 different things that would have had them win very easily but we must suspend belief in order to enjoy films which involve time travel.
And finally yes I know it's stupid but time travel in films is stupid because it makes no sense because it hasn't been invented so were rocking on rules of probability not definites.
And again my assertion is that they are trying to kill Resse because he fathered Connor and they know of this. If they didn't why send back people to kill Connor? They know of his existence ipso facto know about Reese.
This isn't perfect obviously and I'm not saying that "because its fiction it doesn't have to make sense" I'm saying "because it's fiction it doesn't make sense." as there's no sense in time travel.
I think we've fairly safely reached the agree to disagree stage though haha
and my original point was "how do they know " so yeah you can say skynet knew who he was, but that is my point, there isn't any probable way for them to have known that.
ok, i'm done arguing i swear.
That's my ultimate point about this movie. If we sat down and argued for a full day, we could fill in all the plot holes and confusing situations (although I disagree that time travel can't be done well) and all the weird details. We could explain them all and make TS look like a decent movie - but shouldn't the writers have done that when they put pen to paper? Shouldn't all of that confusion been rectified through the exposition of the film? Why do I have to be the one to come up with explanations and excuses for why things don't make sense?
Now if in TS Marcus was actually a terminator from the future sent back to kill reese and connor, then that would have made some sense and would have been a way better movie. it would have explained why there was this plot to kill them and it would have explained the advanced cyborg that marcus was.
Rare though to have such a well thought out argument on the internet though so thank you Jmoney.
Imagine a bunch of robots blowing up and humans dying while Moon Bloodgood's character yells, "There was a fire fight!!" Awesome.
Had IT been a trap set by Skynet, then when Connor used it at his base, Skynet would have know his location and been able to attack him. Or when Connor used it in the field to take down the HK, Skynet would have known his location and been able to kill him.
Don't worry - I had my eye on the story no matter how thin it got.
(What bothered me was why there were hydrobots there?)
On Bad Thing #7: He's a terminator.. So yeah.. He could make that shot..
(Although the T-600 had lousy aim.. So i don't know..)
the one thing that struck me most though (apart maybe from screen-gems like a helicopter outflying a shroom cloud + blast before an absolute cheesefest of an ending and such) is missing in my opinion: where was the overpowering feeling that there is an actual, down to the core struggle for humanities very survival against an all powerful enemy with limitless technology and resources at his disposal going on?
2 kids killing robots (with conveniently placed railroad parts no less)? people strolling about the desert for days on end without being wiped clean off the sand? a headquarter with magnetic mines as the main defense (in a movie dominated by flying robots) and so on... where were the battlefields littered with human skulls? the crafty fighters that take down huge machines with just barely driving cars, high powered rifles and pipe bombs while just barely getting away with their life?
the notion of utter destruction of the human race and the subtle hints to ways humans adapt to it - remember that scene from t1 where the kids watched the tube and were happy about the show that was on? priceless little detail and tip of the hat to coping with what remains, just before the whole place was torn to shreds by an ifiltrator. where did all that stuff go?
all that apart from the fact that, evidently, these killing machines - built for one purpose only mind you - will wait for their target to recognise the threat, give them a second or two of terror and only then start shooting. and to top it off they are equipped with about the same grade of accuracy that bad guys in any given a-team episode have at their disposal. theyre killing machines for crying out loud. cold, mathematically steered killing machines. that, and only that, made them so menacing to begin with.
and whilst a robot able to safely navigate through rubble, "cut" himself loose from slingtraps and recognize facial attributes to safely identify single targets in a sheer herd of people, doesnt seem to be able to calculate where an object moving at speed x is going to be by time y to aim a chaingun in the general direction z, a high speed bike detached from a robot's legs (the one place you would not want to place stuff that doesnt stabilize the machine) can easily calculate its drift'n'slide through a bunch of flying cars...
dont get me wrong. i actually enjoyed that bike scene a lot. it was one of the few that actually showed off what kind of awesome machinery is trying to take down humanity.
at any rate, the absolute lack of any feeling of danger really messed this movie up for me. also: pg13 is alright for spongebob, harry potter and the like... NOT a terminator movie. how come sly seems to be the only one to remember these days: movies about war need violence, blood and terror. its in these things that war manifests itself.
but with many flicks in the last bunch of years one huge question imposes itself: where did the writers, directors & producers that actually had a pair go after the golden era?
ps: awesome site! love the shouting matches.
Ideally, you would have had some platoons of Resistance fighters taking positions around the hole in the ground, Connor and crew making their way into the facility; obtaining information; rescuing civilians and fighting their way out.
I was quite disappointed that the Hueys did not light up a formation of T-600's with their 5-inch rockets and miniguns, and calling in the Warthogs for air support. Scenes like these would have established Connor as a leader, particularly if he saved Barnes' brother and carried him to a Medevac helicopter. The opening sequence should have reminded the viewer a bit of "Saving Private Ryan" more so than "Independence Day."
Marcus and Blair should have had more interaction; implied nudity could have worked just as well as a pair of shapely lust-orbs. Also, Marcus does not seem to realize there's something different about him; he treats his bashing of the three survivors with the same regard as finishing a cheeseburger.
Also, why is he not in awe of his own survival? Why does Kyle ask him "Just what the hell are you talking about? Were you lost for the past 15 years or something? I mean 3 billion people were VAPORIZED, and all you can say is WHAT HAPPENED HERE?" I mean, post J-Day survival is likely more on Kyle's mind that how someone else made it through unscathed; but didn't his survival instinct set cause him to question Marcus' cluelessness?
It is likely that Skynet was unable to successfully locate and attack Connor's Resistance base as they may not have had sufficient capacity. According to 'From the Ashes' they were still building up their numbers. And Skynet had only ONE functional T-800? Too much mustache twisting on the part of Skynet.
Connor should have been beaten up, but not speared through the chest. Marcus should have stayed on, after saving him from the T-800. Not for nothing but the Project Angel script (see below)involved Connor dying and Marcus taking his place and skin - that would have mucked w/ the legend too much and alienated the audience.
I always did wonder exactly how the resistance formed, how they obtained supplies (aviation fuel, food and water would not exactly be easily available post J-Day) and how the survivors first learned of Skynet's involvement. Not enough exposition here. Wasted opportunity.
There was a portion of a script floating around called "Project Angel" in which Helena Bonham Carter/Kogen was supposed to be a 'one-off' Terminator similar to Marcus; they were supposed to have a conversation similar to what actually took place BUT that was booted and we had the mustache-twisting incarnation of Skynet instead.
Also, just how did Skynet know about Kyle Reese? I mean he wasn't involved in any campaigns from which to gain a reputation. Did the machines sent into the past leave traces for future incarnations of Skynet to find? They were a little too omniscient.
Connor should also have insistent on one element of the final attack plan: instead of broadcasting the message from the Command Sub, broadcast it from a decoy, and use air assets to take out the HK on approach. That would have made Command a bit more aware of Connor's strategic thinking; it would have gummed up Skynet's plans by sowing seeds of doubt.
Had Skynet's programming Marcus been too obvious ('Find him and kill him'), he might not have been effective @ locating Connor and convincing him to break into Skynet Central. The Kogen screen talking-head did say they had to think radically.....the script writers clearly did not emphasize that Skynet's thinking was strategic in nature - take out Connor and the rest of the Resistance would falter.