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Furthermore, they need Joker for the next film. I know Ledger is gone, but he would've wanted the story told correctly. He cared about this story, and it's only complete if there's a Joker to tempt and tamper with this Batman. They recast Dumbledore when Richard Harris died. This is about the character, not the actor, and it's unfortunate what happened to Ledger, but the show goes on.
Now let's address Bale getting arrested because he beat up his mother and sister...
I think that the ending that they gave him in this film was perfect and much more compelling then Dr. Crane's riding away on the horse ending in Begins.
Why in the world did everyone assume crane was dead? that didn't make much sense. Where as publicizing the death of Dent will make for a much more powerful re-entry in the next film. If in fact that's the direction they take it.
Personally though, I am much more excited to see this film in IMAX again and when it is released on bluray over and over and over then I am to see the next sequel.
This should hold us over for a while.
This isn't a simple case of recasting, and Dumbledore isn't a solid comparison either. First, their hands were tied with Dumbledore. They just launched a 7 film (now 8 film) project that had to feature that character. They weren't about to scrap the character or the films just because their actor passed on. Batman is not in the same situation. They can leave The Joker out, not make a third movie, or recast him. They have options, whereas WB was forced to recast for Dumbledore.
And to speak further to your comparison, Richard Harris was really well liked by the HP crowd, but Ledger's Joker is resonating with a much larger audience. You get into major problems with suspension of disbelief with your audience when they've already seen the real Joker (and one that is so absolutely effective at the part) and then you have to start believing a different-looking person is The Joker. Besides, Dumbeldore wasn't featured as much as The Joker, and the acting certainly didn't make the same sort of impact.
WB and Nolan have a serious issue on their hands. Would I love to see more Joker? Of course. Would I want to see a different actor playing him? Definitely not. It's a no-win situation, and WB will probably pressure for recasting, and the film will be weaker for it.
That having been said I actually would look forward to the evolution of new characters and villans. One of the things that I and many other fans will say is that one of the best things about Batman is the great collection of villains that he has to face. Much more diverse than Superman and Lex Luthor, or the X-men and magneto. So I think it would be interesting to see Nolan's take on the likes of the penguin, the riddler, and Catwoman (by the way how cool would it be if Angelina Jolie played Catwoman, she'd be perfect for that role). This could also lead to the emergeance of other characters such as Robin or batgirl.
While many think that the introduction of these new characters would make the movies much like the over-stylized Tim Burton adaptations of Gotham City, which had new villains and allies in every installment. I put full confidence in Nolan to recreate the entire world of batman with his own vision.
While I loved the Joker in this movie, and he is definetly Batman's best foe, he is one part of the Batman story. In order for the true greatness of Nolan's Batman to be realized he can't be battling the same guy every movie. Therefore, it seems most logical to me that we will see two face again, and the emergeance of some new classic batman villian, or ally.
People will get over it. As long as Pauly Shore is not cast as the Joker, people will understand. Will it be as good: probably not. But the Joker is kind of a chameleon and this type of character can lend itself to a different performer who takes a different approach than Ledger, or even MArk Hamill and JAck Nicholson did. It's a rich character and just as important to Batman as any other character.
I do agree that Catwoman is the next logical villain, too. It seems like now that Batman is accepting his vigilante role it seems like a good time to introduce a character that could have similar roots and can both help/fight Batman because they share opposing ideologies. Mainly, though, the next film needs to be about Batman again. This film was about Gotham, but if this is the last installment, which it could be with Nolan and Bale, it needs to be about Bruce/Batman, not Gotham.
Plus--Dent was already SEVERELY injured. More than Batman.
I don't think he survived that fall. The only reason Batman survived was because... well, he's Batman. Duh.
About Harvey's injuries... as unrealistic as they may be, he was only in that condition for about a day before he died. If that doesn't phase you as far as facts go, I'd also like to remind you that we're talking about a movie based on a pretty zany comic. To point fingers as every detail is kind of being picky.
I believe in Harvey Dent. I also believe that he doesn't need anymore screen time as Two-Face. Bring in some new flavors of villain I say!
Though, anything with Aaron Eckhart = instant view from me. D:
Catwoman (Though she would need a lot of character development, and considdering the state of Gotham and Batman's image at the end of the Dark Knight, I don't know if she would have enough focos to do it well),
Deadshot (Not only one of the few enemies of Batman left without either an implausably flamboyant gimmick or some sort of superpower, but considering that Batman now has the blame of the city for some seven-or-so deaths including cops, mob bosses, and more than likely Harvey Dent as well (regardless of whether he really is dead or not), and that is way more than enough heat to get powerful people throughout Gotham ready to pay a professional to get rid of the bat problem),
and Harley Quinn (Who I'm persomally gunning for and I can't believe no one's mentioned yet. She is how we can still see the influence of the Joker while he is in his cozy padded cell in Arkham. He can give her the ideas during their "sessions" (her civilian job is as a criminal psychologist), then she makes them happen. Oh, and this could reduce the impact of, or perhaps delay any recasting. If someone gets in his makeup and they film him from behind as he faces the wall, then all they'll need is a soundalike to record his dialouge and so long as they try not to get front-facing shots of him then they're golden! Crisis averted... At least until he breaks out),
There's also great possabilities available with "cameos" of pre-"supervillan status" characters; It could give them a quick opening to pursue their stories as villans if they make a fourth film, and could easily be written off as fanservice if they don't. For instance, at the start of the movie we may find Batman busting a bunch of thugs led by a rotund and well dressed Oswald Cobblepot (aka the Penguin), or perhaps Bruce Wayne goes to buy flowers to bring to Rachel's grave and finds himself at a greenhouse run by a friendly but somewhat odd woman by the name of Pamela Isley (aka Poison Ivy).
Now this is all probably hoping for WAY too much, but maybe we'll even start to see the beginnings of an combined DC universe, not unlike Marvel has done recently. The Justice League didn't just form afternight after all, you know; They'd met before. Hoping Bruce will take a business trip to metropolis and get an interview with the Daily Planet is wishful thinking at best, but at the least they can give Metropolis or Superman a mention on a TV news ticker or newspaper cover maybe.
I am with Cole in the opinion that a Joker after Heath Ledger will be weaker. I love the Joker's character, he really is the best Batman villain. Catwoman, the Penguin, and the Riddler are all mediocre in comparison. The Harley Quinn idea could be cool and give the Joker a Hannibal Lecter-esque quality if he sat in the shadows of an Arkham cell guiding Harley through her role as a terrorist.
Dent's story should be done. Even in this film I felt his story dragged a bit. What more would you want him to do? Continue to flip coins? His story was helped by the picture perfect job Ledger did. I actually thought Dent/Two-Face's story was better before he was burnt. I liked seeing the verbal sparring between him and Bruce Wayne.
I dunno, it's far-fetched sure, but I'm not a wonderful screenwriter like Chris and Jon Nolan. I trust them, they'll make it work. They'll also make Joker work, too. Don't tell me they can't. I saw a post somewhere that had suggestions and the obvious one (Johnny Depp) was there, but they also mentioned a really intriguing one: Michael C. Hall (Dexter) could MAAAAYBE pull it off. Maybe. With a great script.
Does anybody think that the Riddler really fits in this world? It seemed like they encompassed Riddler IN Joker with all the mind games, so is he necessary?
we will be getting more of two-face in the next movie im sure of it :)
Look at the way this played out. If indeed Gordon chose to hide a still breathing Dent, there were plausible options to both convince people Dent was dead and that Batman was a nasty criminal. The masses previously assumed that Dent was killed in the hospital explosion. The only people that saw him alive and acting like a murderous psycho were dead or standing there with Gordon and Batman at the end. The trickiest part would be covering the body at that moment. Gordon had that opportunity while the cops chased after a fleeing Batman. The best person with the means to help Gordon conceal the truth, is a billionaire Bruce Wayne.
So that leaves us with the "why". Why bring back the Two Face villain? I find the answer in our Hero's plight. Let's not forget that Batman is still a face of Bruce Wayne, not the other way around. He was just left completely heart broken. The woman in his life was murdered. He thought she was about to take the next step in their relationship. And only two people know the truth, Alfred and Harvey Dent. That alone is a dynamic that I think needs to be fleshed out. Wayne (Batman) must experience that reality and survive it to defend the city from the only person smart enough to follow up the Joker's reign, Two Face. He would be hell bent on exacting revenge on the system he once defended, that he believes led to Rachel's death. Love lost can be a catalyst for insanity. Another thing, we didn't hear the extent of the conversation between Dent and the Joker in the hospital room. What truce/plan did they develop? How much did the Joker get into that head of his? I think we may find out in three years. Didn't the Joker turn out to be one sly and genius freak?
For the next flick, while Catwoman makes sense, I can't see her as the main "villain" on her own. If indeed Two Face is dead, I can only see the Riddler or the Penguin as villains besides Catwoman. Batman's other villains like Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, Clayface and the Man Bat is not plausible in the realistic world that Nolan has created, although I guess Poison Ivy could be explained to a degree. I would be interested in Ras Al Ghul returning. In the comic, Ras Al Ghul was immortal; he would die and be reborn in his Lazarus Pit. While that wouldn't gel in Nolan's vision, what if Ras Al Ghul was immortal in name only? A new person would take the mantle of Ras Al Ghul when the old one passed away. That explains how the League of Shadows has endured since the Romans. Ken Watnabe's Ras Al Ghul perished, and Liam Neeson took over. Then they could introduce Talia, Ras Al Ghul's daughter. They could based this on the Son of Demon graphic novel.
While Bale is signed on for another movie, I don't believe Nolan is. WB has to try their hardest to keep Nolan on the Batman franchise.
That is why they held the memorial. It was simbolic because they knew Harvey was now another person. Two Face should definitely be in Arkham. He doesn't necessarily need to be a simplified character after only revenge in the next film. He could also start to crave power. We know he's got some dough from Wayne's fund raiser, and perhaps he hires an army of thugs to help him take revenge on basically everyone (Batman, the cops, the crime families) and becames greedy and power hunger. We already know he is corruptible. Perhaps he becomes more corrupt with help of next introduced villian (Penguin, Riddler?) I don't think the arc is complete, and there is still development for his character. Also, if he escapes Arkham and ends up taking revenge on the city, they could clear Batman's name.
and Joker and Scarecrow have been caught by the police I think the next film will centre
around Arkham Asylum. How cool would that be! Obviously Scarecrow would take a back
seat in the film and Joker would have to be recast. So the real question is who will be the
new villain to spring the previous villains out of the Asylum? I know that is a lot of villains
but i think Nolan could handle it and that could make for yet another highly anticipated
film.
http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategori...
If that guy's for real, they could make Killer Croc a possibility. Croc's character could be a pro fighter, that's his gimmick.
Because of how insane TDK was, i hope there isn't a third movie, it would be impossible or really hard to make a batman movie better than TDK. The sequel was so good that it could have been the third movie of a trilogy, what would be cool is if they made TDK even longer and just split it in half, like Kill Bill
Good observations on Christopher Nolan's work, I never noticed his tradmarks
Let us presume that Ra's al Ghul (Liam Neeson), being the master ninja that he is, was still able to escape the crashing train, albeit highly injured. This is where the Lazarus Pit would enter. Then, having recovered, he now tracks on Batman, planning to take his revenge again or trying to convince him once more to rejoin the League of Shadows. Well for some weird reason concocted by my brain, he was passing by and saw Rachel Dawes tied up just before the explosion, then he rescues her to no one's knowledge. Or, she could have been in the explosion but for some weird reason again, survived yet highly injured and with amnesia. Either way, he might take care of her until she recovers, still not remembering who she really is. Ra's, having said his family was already gone in "Batman Begins", might take her in as her daughter and train her himself, transforming her into what would be Talia al Ghul. And then when he confronts Batman again, he'll be pitting her on him. And moral / romantic dillemma occurring, now how would it end I don't know.
Or if she did survive without Ra's interfering, she still has amnesia and then adopted by a family (namely the Kyle family) to live as a street urchin, or a prostitute if you would. With that background, she'll become Catwoman. Now as to who will be casted for that role I'll leave it to them, but she has to be at least of the same ability as Pfeiffer's, maybe even superior.
Well, I don't really know if that made sense, but what do you think?
The only thing I think I disagree with is the notion that Batman would be "in on" such a thing. I think that ends up firstly putting Batman up as too questionable too early in a sequel, and robs us of an oppertunity to have Batman looking into a conspiracy of what happened to Harvey Dent.
It would probably be best that in the early next film it is stated that Harvey Dent died in hospital after suffering a fall, and Batman at first has no reason not to believe that this is true. But then a year or so later he comes to question this and finds out there was a conspiracy between the Mayor, a Governor, and even Gordon and some cops were in on it all. Knowing how Batman idolizes Dent he would disapprove, and of course Gordon would say that this was just the logical end of everything they had agreed to do concerning Harvey.
Harvey, meanwhile, has other plans.
The culprit? The editing room floor. They had to make a PG-13 movie that was already two and a half hours long. Cuts had to be made.
They couldn't show Dent's neck breaking in half like a pencil nor could they have all this superflous dialouge "is he dead?" *checks pulse "yeah, he's dead!" So they put their faith in the audience's intelligence.
I don't blame anyone for coming to this conclusion though. If you watch what happens after he falls Commisioner Gordon and Batman act as though Dent isn't even there, it's very bizzare and very anti climatic.
Hopefully a Director's cut edition will come out this December showing the scene as the film maker's had intended it.