DISQUS

Film School Rejects: Discuss: Is Pixar Sexist?

  • Ivy · 5 months ago
    I think that since traditional Disney spent so many years doing princess movies focused on a female heroine or female lead, Pixar probably just wanted to do something different by focusing on men. But I do think it's about time to have a "non princess" female lead connected to the Disney franchise.
  • Hank · 5 months ago
    I think it's definitely eyebrow-raising. Just noticed that Up had one female character in the entire film, Carl Frederickson's wife. Even the female bird was given the name Kevin...and the name never changed even after the two male characters discovered it was a female. Very interesting.
  • Harley · 5 months ago
    I think what's more sexist is when Warner Bros said they won't accept any script with a female lead. I don't think the exclusion of a female protagonist is sexist no more than the exclusion of a black protagonist is racist. Pixar does have positive female role models in their films, don't they?
  • Christina · 5 months ago
    I believe that it has become so ingrained in their culture (having male centered animated films) that it doesn't seem like a problem to them. It does seem a bit odd given the cultural matrix of our society. Also, just from a writer's perspective, the princess story line is just old.
  • RobertFure · 5 months ago
    The real question is - is Pixar accountable? The answer is no. Pixar can do whatever they want. The last thing they should ever do is listen to the .0002% of the population that sees fit to complain. "Listen, I absolutely adore every single thing Pixar has done they are the greatest, but listen to me here's what I, the uncreative audience, recommend you do."

    Further, no, Pixar is not sexist.
  • liquid terminator · 5 months ago
    there are always strong female leads in all of pixar's movies. wtf kinda topic is this? nit picky if you ask me. just look at the studio and of course the leads will be all male. the writers and directors of the pixar movies are all middle aged nerdy males.
  • mike d · 5 months ago
    mrs. incredible was pretty hot. Is that sexist?
  • Moses Roberts · 5 months ago
    No... that's hot.
  • Josh_Radde · 5 months ago
    Elastigirl. Dora. I would consider them "main" characters. That being said, it does bring up an interesting question, and I agree, I don't think they're going out of their way to tell stories only centered around men. Also, I doubt that Pixar's "princess" is going to be like Jasmine or Ariel, she'll be a well thought-out character and not just a model for little girls.

    The focus is on telling a great story. I mean look at the AFI Top 100, only 2 of the top 10 are centered around female leads and those are "Wizard of Oz" and "Gone with the Wind." The larger question should be "Is Hollywood sexist" because the only movies that have female leads inevitably get marketed as "chick flicks" unless they feature Angelina Jolie blowing shit up.
  • Cole_Abaius · 5 months ago
    Stop making sense. Go back to talking crazy talk.
  • Moses Roberts · 5 months ago
    Don't forget Jesse. She was practically the star in the second Toy Story.
  • Ricky · 5 months ago
    Nice point Josh. How many Wes Anderson movies main character is female? How about Kevin Smith? How about Dream Works? Ron Howard films? Or any million other people or companies. This isn't sexist, it just is. Pixar is awesome lets leave them alone and let them make a great flick every year.
  • RobertFure · 5 months ago
    In defense of "Princess" movies, they are aimed at little girls who want to be - oh yeah, fucking Princesses. Toy Story featured a Cowboy and a Spaceman and it was aimed at, oh yeah, little boys.
  • Cole_Abaius · 5 months ago
    Great point, although I'm not sure how that pattern continues with the fish or, good god, the robot. Either children will want to grow gills or join with Skynet.

    Your comment is actually the point that the NPR author makes - that she would rather see a new female character for younger girls instead of the stand-by princess. Gender role creation is exactly what she's talking about - so thanks for making her point for her!

    You are so good at that.
  • Bunny · 5 months ago
    I know a hell of a lot of little girls who don't want to be princesses. At least... not at first. Watched my baby cousins talk about being explorers and spacemen and doing awesome things and being all kinds of cool, and loving lizards and bugs. Then they started school and after "not fitting in" for a while... started showing more interested in more typical "girl" stuff like princesses. And pink. And referring to dinosaurs as "boy stuff".

    Some girls like princesses. Some girls like robots. Or lizards. Or dinosaurs. Some boys want to be cowboys. Some actually prefer dolls and dress-up to meccano, but when was the last time you met a parent who wouldn't react somwewhat negatively to little Timmy playing with his sisters tutus?

    I wanted to be a mad scientist/artist/rock star/archaeologist/vet when I was a kid. All at once. With superpowers. Just because. Princesses didn't enter into it. We don't tumble out of the womb with a special preference for gendered things like cowboys and princesses hardwired into our brains. Such things are at least partially about conditioning. It is probably no coincidence that I developed a desire for archaeology with an Uncle who loved going beach combing, digging and generally looking-for-interesting-rocks, or loved The Doors after another uncle practically forced me to listen to them every time I visited him!
  • Nick DeNife · 5 months ago
    I knew this would happen eventually. Every time an individual or group of individuals achieves success, they get called to task on some PC bullshit. The stories at Pixar are written by men, so things are seen from a male point of view, but they always - ALWAYS - include a strong female character in the stories. In UP, it's Ellie, even though she occupies less than fifteen minutes of screen time, her presence is there through the entire movie. As a matter of fact, the main male character is (in my opinion, anyway) what he is in large part due to her influence.

    I am so goddamned tired of PC whining I'm going ouot right now to club a few baby seals. That always makes me feel better.
  • ERoBB · 5 months ago
    They're all white too. Is Pixar racist?
  • Andrew · 5 months ago
    It seems like they are just splitting hairs. Suppose Disney never made princess movies and they only made films where there was a well-developed, independent female role. Then Disney would take heat for not appealing to the desires of little girls wanting to become princesses, The princess movies are for the girls, and the adventure movies are for the boys. It seems to me that the out speakers are only jealous because the "boy films" are newer and have better technology involved. I mean honestly, do you see anyone complaining because a "prince movie" was never made. No. This is because people have learned to deal. I personally believe the Disney movies are well balanced when it comes to gender.
  • Bunny · 5 months ago
    What about girls that want to have adventures? This "princesses are for girls, adventures are for boys" stuff is exactly the problem.

    And why not make a movie about a prince? It could be cool. A prince who gets rescued by a peasant girl, who saves the day.

    How about, instead of insisting it must be ALL empowered women or ALL little-princesses we could have a variety of exciting, varied and interesting characters for children of both genders and all races and colours? Then everyone can be happy.
  • HidanE · 5 months ago
    To that first part.
    Why not just switxh it around? It's not written in stone that the girls MUST only like the princess stories and the boys MUST only like adventures. It can be vis versa anyway you see fit. The movies are for anyone who shows intrest in the certain genra.
  • TJL · 5 months ago
    I kinda agree with both sides of the issue. It would be nice to see a pixar film with a female lead.
    But, it's risky, since they've never done that before, do they want to ruin thier record of ten hits in a row?
    You know if Pixar does a film with a female lead the media will start calling it a "girl's movie." Boys won't see a girls movie.

    Perhaps a story with a boy and a girl as the stars?
  • Kangaroo Be Stoned · 5 months ago
    I watch girl movies. I like some romantic comedies.
  • derp · 5 months ago
    Dreamworks has had way stronger female leads, Susan in monster vs. aliens, fiona in shrek, tigra in kung fu panda etc. They kick ass literally and have varying sides to their personalities, Pixar doesn't do this they have cookie-cutter supporting character girls with no depth.

    Pixar is formulatic to a fault in all their movies but that's no excuse to not being able to write in a female character that isn't weird or a flat support character.
  • MrDeath · 5 months ago
    Susan was a strong female lead, but not really Fiona. I mean, she knew Karate, but at the end she still needed her knight in shining armor (Shrek) to save her at the end. And I'd wager that Mrs. Incredible is much more stronger than Fiona. And Tigra? Oh yeah, her 5 lines in the movie revealed a lot about her.
  • yankeekilla04 · 5 months ago
    The thing to keep in mind is that Hollywood (and TV for that matter) have always relied on stereotypes to help tell their stories. It is simply a necessity so that people can further connect to the personalities of the characters without having to tell their entire back story just for it to make sense.

    On this point, this practically demands (even though it is not always the case and certainly not the case when talking about the main role since you need background anyway) for the "hero" of the story to be male. I'm not trying to be sexist but when people regularly think hero they think strong (physically and mentally), smart, and can do things on their own, which is normally embodied by a male role. And while the main character doesn't need to fill this mold, if you break it for them then you need to break it for the supporting roles as well (otherwise you get characters that could easily replace the main role or otherwise they just do not fit the story), which eventually requires you to make back stories for everyone else too, which is difficult to fit into one movie. Movies have always been centered on bringing characters together that are all different from each other and having them unite to make a well-rounded group.
  • Matt · 5 months ago
    This BS gets spouted off every time a new Pixar film is out. Just look at WALL-E last year, a movie about robots that had one of the strongest female protagonists of all time was touted as sexist by some people! This BS is just that, bull sh*t. Ignore these "sexist" rants Pixar, and for the love of God media, quit giving them attention they don't deserve.
  • Roxie · 5 months ago
    It is interesting to notice their main characters are generally male. Yet their female characters are adoring and competent characters, even at times far better than their male counterparts. Yet it does play on the notion that men generally have a big fault, and it takes a woman to set them straight. But their overall big message in their works doesn't relate to gender at all. It's universal and can apply to anyone, and that's all that really matters in a good story.
  • Thomas Collins · 5 months ago
    I think it would be more insulting if Pixar releases a film with a female lead just for the sake of appeasing these critics. Give them time, let them craft an exemplary story and not just push forward another "princess movie" that we are all accustomed to. Bear and the Bow is coming 2012 with a female lead voiced by Reese Witherspoon if I'm not mistaken.

    However, past Pixar films have showcased strong and admirable female leads. The Incredibles with Elastigirl/Helen, Jesse in Toy Story 2, That Porsche in Cars, Eve (it's pretty much implied/accepted that she's a girl), etc..
  • Bob Saget · 5 months ago
    This is such a ridiculous topic. OK, yes it's true. Pixar films have had mostly male leads but you know what? SO WHAT? Every single freakin' tv show has a moronic husband character that is always wrong and always upsetting his perfect wife (Family Guy, The Simpsons, Home Improvement, etc etc etc ). Seriously. How many strong intelligent male character have there been on TV in the past 50 years? I know there are a few but it's almost always a dumb fat husband who should be thanking his lucky stars he married such a smart hot wife who always knows best. So the fact that one movie studio decides to have mostly male actors in the lead is sexist? HA! Freakin' ridiculous.
  • Josh_Radde · 5 months ago
    PIXAR SHOULD MAKE MOVIES WITH ALL FEMALE CASTS PLAYING CATS AND SINGING SONGS FROM WEIRD AL'S CATALOG. OFKPOJRPGJO. I need to go play with that pink donkey in the backyard now, if you'll excuse me.
  • mal · 5 months ago
    arnt most if not all pixar films written in house? and if thats the case, we'll not only pixar but the entire animation community is mainly male. so it makes sense that they would develop films around relatable characters for them.
  • ChristianH · 5 months ago
    The flaw in this argument is that it's immediately assumed that the male leads in question are always strong characters. In fact, most of the male main characters carry flaws such as too much pride or neurosis or stupidity, and it's the female character that has to be the voice of reason or the subject of the audiences' sympathies. Without Dory, Finding Nemo would be a dreadfully frustrating film, and without Elastigirl, well, Mr. Incredible would have lost, but more than that the chauvenism of his character wouldn't have been sufficiently reigned in so as to be relatable. And without Eve, would we have really liked Wall-E as much as we did?
  • Yocean · 5 months ago
    Well, as oft used advice on writing goes, you wright about what you know. And as most of the people in animation are male, they know more about male characters than female characters. So if you want Pixar to continue writing good stories, then, well, I guess it would have to have male leads. It would be more insulting to have them have a female lead just for the sake of PC and have her be unrealistic. Because as hard as we try, we cannot completely imagine being in another person's skin and being on different gender add more distance.

    That is not to say they don't have great female characters, you know? Like so many other on this comment board said, their stories would go no where without the female characters. We admire them, don't t we? Which means the Pixar writers might not know women enough to have them be leads, they do love, respect and admire them. Which is a lot more than you can say about most main-stream flicks, no? Really, think about it. Also, what Princess movies from Disney had male characters as flowed and realistic and non-cliche attractive as female characters in Pixar films? Am I wrong here?

    Maybe when Pixar and animation world in general has more women, and general audience and industry is more accepting of female creators, we will have female lead Pixar movie that is not a princess movie and everybody would want to watch. I'd love to see that, I do.
  • Toongirl · 3 months ago
    While I can understand the "write about what you know" angle, it's also bullshit. It's never stopped Studio Ghibli from making outstanding female characters for their films, and most of them are NOT princesses to boot!

    John Lasseter worships Miyazaki, so what's holding him back? Answer: He knows the average American audience too well.
  • Kiri · 5 months ago
    Why does everyone think that girls can't identify with a male protagonist? Why do we have to view everything through the gender lens?
  • Bevin · 5 months ago
    Do I think Pixar is sexist? That's actually kind of a tough question to answer. As a fan of their movies (and I am a big fan), I have had a nagging feeling of disappointment in the back of my mind since I started seeing the promos for "Up". It seemed like another quality Pixar production, with well-written characters, an emphasis on great storytelling, and beautiful animation to back it up. But yeah, why, in ten movies, has this formula not been given to a female protagonist? Would it really have changed the story so much to change Marlin in "Finding Nemo" to Marlena, or to have a female rat aspiring to be a chef in Paris? Pixar writes very interesting, strong women as supporting characters in these films, so why are we always being asked to view them from a male perspective? Are the writers thinking about gender issues when they're writing the stories? Probably not. But then I really can't see why having a female lead is so controversial or "too PC". What's wrong with asking an audience to view the exact same story through the eyes of a female instead of a male? Is it asking for too much that women, who are very often asked to view movies through a male perspective, since most movies are made from a male perspective, get to watch a movie from a female perspective without it becoming 'political'?
  • Alexa · 5 months ago
    Nah. When I was a little girl, my American-history-buff dad had already ingrained in me that monarchy was bad and democracy was awesome; hence, I wanted to be President. Or a paleontologist. But thanks for playing.
  • Alexa · 5 months ago
    I take issue with everyone who is saying "well the writing staff is male, what do you expect?" Part of creativity and imagination means being able to write compelling stories from a viewpoint that is different than yours. Look over at books and comics-- some of the best stories told in recent years have been men writing from women and girls' perspectives: Brian Michael Bendis's "Alias", Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials", the recent "I Kill Giants" by Joe Kelly, Terry Moore's "Strangers in Paradise", Neil Gaiman's "Coraline" (which was made into a fantastic film).

    I don't think Pixar is sexist, I just think they're part of the same Hollywood machine that has ignored the female audience (and therefore, the female dollar) for decades.
  • Mary Shrieks · 5 months ago
    Good point. The fact is, girls are constantly forced to relate to male leads because that's the only option for them in many adventure movies (unless they want to relate to the flat, useless love interest). So on the flipside, why can't guys relate to a female lead? This is a challenge, guys. Are we more imaginative and flexible, or are you just too self-centered to sympathize with anyone outside the SWM (Straight, White, Male) model?
  • Bunny · 5 months ago
    I would say that Pixar are not sexist. That isn't to say they don't sometimes fall guilty of some sexist behaviour, but they are certainly far more progressive than the animators I grew up with.

    Pixar have very few female leads, but they do have them. I believe Monsters Vs Aliens was a Pixar move; in which a strong woman gets superpowers that, subconsciously, are not the sort of thing we would epxect for a woman - she gets HUGE! SUPERBIG! And of course strong with it. Women are not supposed to take up space - physical, social, political, that is what we are usually told. But this woman does, she kicks arse, and she has the guts ot kick her ex out on his ear when he comes crawling back.

    Mrs Incredible was not the lead but was a strong, independent, capable and feisty woman all on her own right, and did not sit back waiting to be rescued or watching her man be heroic; she took action herself.

    Pixar rarely produce princess-type women, and even when they do their princesses do not fit the standard mold; just look at Shrek. Okay, not a lead, but pretty damn good. I think Disney (oldschool) is far more guilty. Growing up, the strongest female character I remember is Mrs Dibley from The Secret of Nimh; Mulan was a little too late for me, and the other Disney princesses just... sucked. They suck even more now, though, since they were made more "marketable". (read, bland).

    Really, I think the issue now is Pixar clearly know that strong female characters sell well, they just are only slowly getting brave enough to risk putting one in as the central character. I have no doubt they are trying to though, and expect to see more female leads in the future.
  • Bunny · 5 months ago
    Okay, scratch the above I am an idiot. Monsters vs Aliens was Dreamworks (oops).
  • Bunny · 5 months ago
    I would say that Pixar are not sexist. That isn't to say they don't sometimes fall guilty of some sexist behaviour, but they are certainly far more progressive than the animators I grew up with.
  • Francis · 5 months ago
    I've been wondering about this exact same thing since seeing the trailers for Up. I'm sure it's a great movie. But all this talk about needing a lead who will relate to an audience, thus a male, bothers me. Sure we see "hero" as male, but can't that be changed? Shouldn't it be? I don't want my daughter to grow up thinking she's destined to be a supporting character in the world, albeit a strong and important one, just because she wasn't born a boy.

    And then there are all those who gripe about "the PC police" and roll their eyes... I agree that political correctness can get out of hand, but trying to include all kinds of people is more than just PC. It's equality. I'm glad that a person of colour finally made it into a lead role in a Pixar film. I'm glad Disney finally has an African-American princess. It isn't "sad" or succumbing to criticisms to include people who are different from the norm, it's inclusive and progressive!

    I'm withholding judgement on the princess thing until I see what kind of princess she'll be, but I'd really like to see the idea that men can't relate to female characters thrown out. If women can do it, why can't we?
  • Ambi Valent · 5 months ago
    I think it's more an American movie problem than a Pixar problem. I think Pixar created several good strong female characters who can be themselves instead of being a magical girlfriend for the protagonist, and I'm not sure that's the case with several US shows with women who are strong and competent.

    I'm a German, and we get lots of dubbed movies from other nations, and I just can't imagine a lot of German and foreign movies with girl protagonists getting successfully remade in the US, because critics would reject them for these girls being bad role models, the movie would be called girly, and it's very hard to make changes that both please the critics, and get the boys to watch the movie, so ultimately, a remake will paint the movie pink to get the girls to view it, and most likely ruin it.
  • Toongirl · 3 months ago
    With few exceptions, Pixar's success has been due to it's "Buddy Picture" formula. Whether it's Toy Story, Nemo, Cars, A Bug's Life, Monsters Inc, Ratatouille, or Up, Pixar has done the Buddy Picture exceedingly well. But even Pixar is realizing it's running out of angles for this formula. It may take hiring a woman animation director to jump this hump. If Pixar can hire Brad Bird for some new blood, they can also take a chance on Sue Kroyer. Or how about Kathy Zielinski?
  • Kaye · 2 months ago
    Simple storytelling device. Male leads are relatable for both genders, whereas females leads tend to only be relatable to females. It narrows your audience.

    For the record, I am female, but I usually prefer watching male leads. A good female character is hard to shoot for; males are a safer bet, I think.