DISQUS

Reebee7 · 4 months ago

I'm just answering the question, do I think 70% of people are idiots?
Um...

Maybe.
I understand your point, I do. And I think it would be fine if people went to see Robot's Kick Each Other's Asses 2, but then went home to watch Casablanca, or read A Tale of Two Cities. But they don't. They watch this, then they go home and wait for a sequel and don't fill the void with anything remotely resembling intellectual stimulation.

I'm all for escapism entertainment every now and then. But it does trouble me when movies are panned, and still make shittons of money.

And I'm very much surprised at the fact that those viewer-voted sites gave it such high marks. Everybody I've talked to loathed this movie. I think I have an answer, and it isn't fanboys: young teens. Like 14 year old boys.

I was leaving a movie around 10:30 Tuesday night, and there were DROVES of people in line to see Transformers at Midnight, but 90% of them were 16 and under. 95% were 17 and younger. The rest were kind of embarrassed to be seen in such a young setting... So they might be bolstering those grades in their pubescent, Megan-Fox-has-boobies manner.

But if you saw it and enjoyed it for what it was, that's fine. But if you say it was anything more than robots fighting and megan fox, I probably won't believe you. And you'd better have said the same thing about Wolverine. Though, I'll admit, I expect more from Wolverine than from transformers... So perhaps that wasn't fair.

keicharones · 4 months ago

I loved Transformers 2. I am a movie critique, I help run a college film review site. Want to take a look at my recently watched list on Netflix? Casablanca was last seen about a month ago. I see more 'art house films' in theatres than any one person I know. How about the two books which I have finished since Transformers 2 came out, might you be interested in knowing what year they were written? The civil war surrounding this film is ridiculous, why do people find so much importance in others' opinions? None of this matters.

Reebee7 · 4 months ago

I didn't imply every singly viewer that liked Transformers was stupid, just that a lot of them are. That's just fact: 80% of people are dumber than the other 20%. My point was I would hope people who enjoyed Transformers would then get some intellectual stimulation elsewhere. But how many kids today have seen Casablanca, we film geeks excluded?

I stated that most people I've talked to have really hated the movie, and that at midnight on opening night it was swarming with younger kids.

I was not saying you have to listen to critics, just that I find it odd that a movie I have heard very little good about, from critics and non-critics, is making so much money. I never said you have to like movies only critics like.

There's no need to take offense or take my post as a personal attack, and I'm sorry if you feel like it was.

And where's your blog? I'm always looking for another good one.

deltavoyage · 4 months ago

If critics aren't important, then why did Terminator Salvation tank at the domestic box office? Critics gave T4 pretty bad buzz, and the movie has not done well in the States as a result. Or look at Star Trek. Critics gave it incredibly positive buzz, and it has exceeded financial expectations.

Critics definitely matter, and I personally care about what critics think. But people who went to see Transformers 2 didn't go to see a good movie, and they didn't care what the critics thought. They went in expecting to see Michael Bay blow up a bunch of shit. And they got what they wanted. I personally did not see Transformers 2 because I knew I would hate it and I wanted to save my money. But people who went to see it didn't care what the critics thought.

It will be interesting to see what kind of percentage drop Transformers has next weekend. That will be the true sign of whether the American public actually like the movie or just saw a bunch of shit blow up.

Kangaroo Be Stoned · 4 months ago

How the hell do you know that the critics played a part in the financial shortcomings of "Terminator Salvation" and the financial success of the horrendous "Star Trek"?

deltavoyage · 4 months ago

Both films had an outstanding marketing campaign with great trailers. Terminator was a fairly popular franchise even though not as many people liked T3. Star Trek, on the other hand, had really hit a rough patch as a franchise. Nemesis bombed at the box office, and Enterprise was the first Star Trek show to be cancelled since the original series. When Star Trek came out, it had incredibly positive reviews, and it made about $75 million in its opening weekend. It also has had a lot of staying power at the box office and has made about $240 million domestically.

Terminator Salvation, on the other hand, was released to generally negative reviews and the movie underperformed in its opening weekend. It fell hard in its second weekend, and has only made around $120 million domestically. If Star Trek hadn't had such positive word of mouth, it wouldn't have had nearly as much staying power at the box office.

Another example from this summer is X-Men Origins: Wolverine. That movie made close to $90 million in its opening weekend, despite generally negative reviews. However, the movie dropped by nearly 70% at the box office in its second weekend. Granted, that was also the weekend that Star Trek was released, but it was a huge fall nonetheless. Some movies are critic-proof (Transformers 2), but others are not (Terminator Salvation).

Davebaxter1989 · 4 months ago

If were talking straight up facts and figures then the following gives a more accurate picture;

Terminator Salvation - $323,469,391
Star Trek - $369,332,179

I'd love to have a failure that clocked up over 300 million. We really must look at worldwide as it gives a clearer picture. These films haven't brought in that different sums it seems.

Anyway money is a terrible way to gauge a film.

Reebee7 · 4 months ago

I also wonder why people can call this dumb entertainment, and then have Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons (particularly the former) be absolutely ripped on on the internet as the worst movies ever. They weren't great, for sure, but I never understood why people couldn't see THESE as dumb entertainment either.

Peter Donohue · 4 months ago

Urgh, I'm sick of Transformers-talk. I was going to go out and see it anyway, just to experience it, but then I figure that if I didn't even like the first one that much, why should I watch a sequel that I probably won't enjoy? So I went to see The Hangover for a second time.

The moral of the story is:
1) The Hangover is awesome and demands multiple viewings.
2) This is really the type of movie you should be able to discern if you'll like it or not. It's one thing if your a critic and get paid to see this stuff, but it should be pretty obvious from the outset if your going to like this. Michael Bay, big robots, explosions, yeah, it's gonna be big and dumb. Don't see the movie just to see it.

nicknicholas · 4 months ago

just because you like it doesn't mean it isn't horrible. ala bad food. just because millions of muppets don't know any better doesn't mean critics shouldn't criticise.

daviedave47 · 4 months ago

Though I understand that critics are basically paid to quantify their opinions of a movie into a rant of some sort, I usually disregard what they say...or at the very least, take what they have to say with a grain of salt (although I DO enjoy reading the reviews most of the time). Everyone's opinion of a movie (no matter what it is) will be different. Two people who like a certain movie will most likely enjoy it for differing reasons, just as those who dislike movies usually fall into the same. A negative review doesn't mean I won't see a movie flat out...just as a positive one will not prompt me to rush out and see one...I will see them, and then make my own opinion.

ΜΘЯĐΣΠ · 4 months ago

Critics sometimes make too much noise of the wrong kind, as they did with Transformers 2. Thankfully, the public voted with their wallets and put the critics where they belong. I always thought that the point of being a critic was to break the subject down and analyze it as objectively as possible?

Ad-hominem attacks on the moviegoing public is disingenious at best.

Whatever happened to objective critique?

Jesse · 4 months ago

deltavoyage critics don't matter. The reason Star Trek did so well was because of the marketing. Those guys at Paramount cut that trailer do be as cool as possible. They most likely sat at a table and said "How can we make this look like Iron Man and Transformers and not Star Trek?". Look at X-men 3 for instance. Horrible reviews for that movie came out, I read many of them. I read so many I most decided to go "What the hell I'll just wait for dvd", but then I saw that tv trailer FOX aired. I then remembered how cool that movie was, and so did alot of other people as X-men 3 broke records.
Now adays critics aren't really needed. If the trailer is cool people will go see, and if the marketing hits them in the right place they'll go see it. This isn't the 50's anymore where people read the newspaper and saw a review and went "Oh this looks nice I'll go see this".

deltavoyage · 4 months ago

None of the box office projections that I looked at for Star Trek had it making over $200 million domestically. Most had it top off at around $175 million, and this was after the huge marketing push for Star Trek. Early reviews came out for the film, and they were extremely positive. As a result, the film gained very positive word of mouth, and it had a lot of staying power at the box office.

That also doesn't cover Terminator Salvation. They had a lot of great marketing, with some of the best trailers that I've seen. But when the film came out, the reviews were pretty negative. The movie underperformed in its first weekend and has only made about $120 million domestically.

I'm not saying that critics matter for every movie. The people who saw Transformers 2 this weekend had made up their mind to see the movie the minute they saw a trailer for it. They didn't go based on the positive review of a movie critic. But critics still matter for some films, as Star Trek and Terminator Salvation prove.

srsly · 4 months ago

The reasoning of this entire post is specious.

Statistically, in the US population
10% have an IQ of 120+ (meaning they qualify academically & psychologically as intelligent to genius level people)
10% have an IQ of 80- (meaning they neurologically or developmentally handicapped)
80% have an IQ of 80-120 (meaning the mass populace is somewhere between dumb-as-bricks to borderline intelligent).

Just because Trans2 made gobs of money and is popular with the general public, doesn't mean It's not idiotic. In fact, usually movies that do extremely well with the MASS populace ARE idiotic.

It's not necessarily egotistic or insulting to give a bad review of a movie. Obviously many people agree with the critics who think the movie was moronic. You just happen to not be one of them so you are vehemently trying to defend yourself by catering to the masses by saying "Hey-you're not dumb! I'm with you!". A clear case of pandering in need of validation.

Get over yourself. In the end, i don't really care what the critics think - BUT i do look to them for previews of what i might expect - so i do listen to what they say - at least the intelligent ones. Asking a carte blanche question like "Do you care what critics think" stems from the same lowest common denominator thinking that drives Michael Bay's style.

And btw - as far as "piss[ing] in [y]our punch" - I may not have the right to do it literally, but i have EVERY right to do it figuratively. It's called freedom of speech - the same right that allows you to post inane articles like this one.

So - to quote your own article "shut the fuck up" and stop bitching because you've been outed as an idiotic critic.

Davebaxter1989 · 4 months ago

I think the whole point of the post though isn't that people aren't idiots, it's that critics shouldn't think people are idiots for liking a film they didn't. Much like you shouldn't think people are idiots for liking a film you don't.

It is possible to like both Transformers 2 and The Godfather, so is that person an idiot and smart?

I mean you say many people agree with the critics, and the flip side is many don't, and the world keeps turning. Who knew?

srsly · 4 months ago

The reasoning of this entire post is specious.

Statistically, in the US population
10% have an IQ of 120+ (meaning they qualify academically & psychologically as intelligent to genius level people)
10% have an IQ of 80- (meaning they neurologically or developmentally handicapped)
80% have an IQ of 80-120 (meaning the mass populace is somewhere between dumb-as-bricks to borderline intelligent).

Just because Trans2 made gobs of money and is popular with the general public, doesn't mean It's not idiotic. In fact, usually movies that do extremely well with the MASS populace ARE idiotic.

It's not necessarily egotistic or insulting to give a bad review of a movie. Obviously many people agree with the critics who think the movie was moronic. You just happen to not be one of them so you are vehemently trying to defend yourself by catering to the masses by saying "Hey-you're not dumb! I'm with you!". A clear case of pandering in need of validation.

Get over yourself. In the end, i don't really care what the critics think - BUT i do look to them for previews of what i might expect - so i do listen to what they say - at least the intelligent ones. Asking a carte blanche question like "Do you care what critics think" stems from the same lowest common denominator thinking that drives Michael Bay's style.

And btw - as far as "piss[ing] in [y]our punch" - I may not have the right to do it literally, but i have EVERY right to do it figuratively. It's called freedom of speech - the same right that allows you to post inane articles like this one.

So - to quote your own article "shut the fuck up" and stop bitching because you've been outed as an idiotic critic.

Otis · 4 months ago

"All your serfs are having Baygasms." -- This type of phraseology is exactly why you're my favorite writer on this site.

set · 4 months ago

no. i don't think i should. because film makers should make films to please the audience, to give entertainment and to inspire. not to bake an effing cheesecake or something for those film critics. and besides, it's their job to criticize, it's what they are being payed to do. so if i was a film maker, i shouldn't mind them and just do my own thing.